Comments on: Server 2008 & PowerShell discussion, continued http://halr9000.com/article/467 (powershell & other stuff) Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:11:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: halr9000 http://halr9000.com/article/467/comment-page-1#comment-6516 halr9000 Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:53:38 +0000 http://halr9000.com/article/467#comment-6516 I can't disagree with any of that really. I mean after all--I am a Windows guy. Our differences stem from the degree to which I think PowerShell solves /most/ of the problems you raised. And just for the record: - I've been blogging for 5 years or so at this site. - I can speak HTML pretty well and almost never use WYSIWYG editors for actual webpage editing (outside of blogs and wikis). - I started using PCs in the Commodore-64 days, I've been watching GUIs for quite a while, too. Not sure if my father's Apple ][e counts :) - Regarding the educational aspect, I agree, that's why Jonathan and I do the podcast (powerscripting.net). I know this is one of those religious type debates to an extent. But I think this sort of interchange is pretty important for the more junior IT folks who may follow along or read this in the future. I can’t disagree with any of that really. I mean after all–I am a Windows guy. Our differences stem from the degree to which I think PowerShell solves /most/ of the problems you raised.

And just for the record:

- I’ve been blogging for 5 years or so at this site.
- I can speak HTML pretty well and almost never use WYSIWYG editors for actual webpage editing (outside of blogs and wikis).
- I started using PCs in the Commodore-64 days, I’ve been watching GUIs for quite a while, too. Not sure if my father’s Apple ][e counts :)
- Regarding the educational aspect, I agree, that’s why Jonathan and I do the podcast (powerscripting.net).

I know this is one of those religious type debates to an extent. But I think this sort of interchange is pretty important for the more junior IT folks who may follow along or read this in the future.

]]> By: Michael http://halr9000.com/article/467/comment-page-1#comment-6515 Michael Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:33:21 +0000 http://halr9000.com/article/467#comment-6515 Hal, let me try to make my point clear by changing the topic a little. You wrote that you used Life Writer for this blog post. You probably know that there are many tech bloggers who will look at you as if you are a leper if you tell them that you use a WYSIWG editor for blogging. They claim that they are faster if they write their posts in a plain text editor using the interface of their blogging software. They also say that they can do different kinds of formatting which your WYSIWG editor doesn’t support. The HTML code will be clean and there is a lower risk for errors. I could continue this list, but I think you got my point. I think the decision to communicate with a computer without using a GUI is often based on emotional rather than rational reasons. If you are familiar with HTML, it might just be more fun to write your posts without a WYSIWG editor. And if you are familiar with PowerShell, it might be more fun to manage your computers on the command prompt or by writing scripts even though there is a free GUI tool available to do the job. I started managing computers before GUIs were available, and I think I have quite some experience with working on the command prompt. I also started blogging before WYSIWG editors came out and I am quite familiar with HTML since I worked as a webmaster, too. I admit that coding is really fun. Yeah, it really rocks if your own script solved a big problem! But unfortunately, I am also very busy. So I always search for the fastest way to solve a problem. Since I am leading an IT department it is also my job to find the cheapest way. Any kind of coding is time consuming and therefore expensive. You shouldn’t make the mistake to count only the time to enter a command. You also have to add the time you needed to learn PowerShell and to keep yourself up-to-date. And you have to add the time to find the right command with its correct parameters if you forgot it after some time. You also have to add the time to correct your typos, etc. The fact that PowerShell offers some new ways to find the correct command is compensated by its complexity. There is no doubt that you have to invest a lot of time to get familiar with it. And if you don’t use it every day you will forget everything you learned pretty fast. That’s why I follow a simple strategy. I always go for the GUI tool if there is one available for the job. Only if there is no other way will I write a script or launch a command prompt. So I absolutely agree with Jeffrey Snover when he says that both ways have their strengths and weaknesses. The weakness of any kind of coding (CLI or scripting) is that it is time consuming and therefore expensive. The strength is that you can solve those problems for which there is no GUI available (yet). Hal, let me try to make my point clear by changing the topic a little. You wrote that you used Life Writer for this blog post. You probably know that there are many tech bloggers who will look at you as if you are a leper if you tell them that you use a WYSIWG editor for blogging. They claim that they are faster if they write their posts in a plain text editor using the interface of their blogging software. They also say that they can do different kinds of formatting which your WYSIWG editor doesn’t support. The HTML code will be clean and there is a lower risk for errors. I could continue this list, but I think you got my point.

I think the decision to communicate with a computer without using a GUI is often based on emotional rather than rational reasons. If you are familiar with HTML, it might just be more fun to write your posts without a WYSIWG editor. And if you are familiar with PowerShell, it might be more fun to manage your computers on the command prompt or by writing scripts even though there is a free GUI tool available to do the job.

I started managing computers before GUIs were available, and I think I have quite some experience with working on the command prompt. I also started blogging before WYSIWG editors came out and I am quite familiar with HTML since I worked as a webmaster, too. I admit that coding is really fun. Yeah, it really rocks if your own script solved a big problem! But unfortunately, I am also very busy. So I always search for the fastest way to solve a problem. Since I am leading an IT department it is also my job to find the cheapest way. Any kind of coding is time consuming and therefore expensive. You shouldn’t make the mistake to count only the time to enter a command. You also have to add the time you needed to learn PowerShell and to keep yourself up-to-date. And you have to add the time to find the right command with its correct parameters if you forgot it after some time. You also have to add the time to correct your typos, etc.

The fact that PowerShell offers some new ways to find the correct command is compensated by its complexity. There is no doubt that you have to invest a lot of time to get familiar with it. And if you don’t use it every day you will forget everything you learned pretty fast.

That’s why I follow a simple strategy. I always go for the GUI tool if there is one available for the job. Only if there is no other way will I write a script or launch a command prompt. So I absolutely agree with Jeffrey Snover when he says that both ways have their strengths and weaknesses. The weakness of any kind of coding (CLI or scripting) is that it is time consuming and therefore expensive. The strength is that you can solve those problems for which there is no GUI available (yet).

]]> By: Jeffrey Snover http://halr9000.com/article/467/comment-page-1#comment-6514 Jeffrey Snover Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:37:50 +0000 http://halr9000.com/article/467#comment-6514 1) You can use "GCM" instead of Get-Command and you only need to provide enough of the PSSNAPIN parameter to disambiguate (which is "p") e.g. PS> Get-Command -PSSNAPIN v* is the same as: PS> gcm -ps v* 2) I never view this as a CLI VS GUI discussion. To me it is always a CLI AND GUI discussion. They are both great and both have their strengths and weaknesses. The right tool for the right job. Jeffrey Snover [MSFT] Windows Management Partner Architect Visit the Windows PowerShell Team blog at: http://blogs.msdn.com/PowerShell Visit the Windows PowerShell ScriptCenter at: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/hubs/msh.mspx 1) You can use "GCM" instead of Get-Command and you only need to provide enough of the PSSNAPIN parameter to disambiguate (which is "p")
e.g.
PS> Get-Command -PSSNAPIN v*
is the same as:
PS> gcm -ps v*

2) I never view this as a CLI VS GUI discussion. To me it is always a CLI AND GUI discussion. They are both great and both have their strengths and weaknesses.

The right tool for the right job.

Jeffrey Snover [MSFT]
Windows Management Partner Architect
Visit the Windows PowerShell Team blog at: http://blogs.msdn.com/PowerShell
Visit the Windows PowerShell ScriptCenter at: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/hubs/msh.mspx

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